Do Men Even Like Women Anymore?

The Manosphere used to at least like women enough to want to sleep with them. That no longer seems to be true.

I have a tiny bit of fondness for the pickup artists of the past. Guys like Neil Strauss and Mystery were not perfect, by any means — I’m not even saying they weren’t misogynistic — but they did like women. They liked women enough to seek to understand them, even if only to get to sleep with them. They liked women enough to write books, create TV shows and teach other men who liked women how to get a chance to do the same. Pickup artists of that era had desire, and they weren’t afraid of it. Desire was not a waste of time, or a hurdle to be overcome. Desire was part of how they perceived themselves as men, so long as they knew how to use it.

Since its beginning, pickup artists have been considered part of the Manosphere, a collection of online communities devoted to masculinity in a time which they perceive it to be under threat by feminism and women writ large. Other factions of the Manosphere include men’s rights activists, incels, and “Men Going Their Own Way,” or men who have decided to divest from women entirely. From the start, the extent to which these types of guys “liked” women varied: some were jealous of women, some were primarily resentful of other men, others just flat out misogynists. But with the exception of some of the MGTOW men, most would still at least acknowledge that they wanted to have sex with women.

I don’t think this is the case anymore.

Men fundamentally disliking women to the point where they perceive women as only good for sex is nothing new. Men questioning whether that exchange is even worth it isn’t new, either. But what does seem to be growing is the idea that men should reject this exchange wholesale, and encourage others to do the same. With increasing frequency, I am seeing men post sentiments like: “Remove sex from a relationship, and you will discover that 90% of women have nothing to offer men in relationships. Conversely, remove money from a relationship, and you will learn that 90% of women won't see a reason to be in said relationship.”

Or the following, from Andrew Tate:

“If you’re not horny you’ll realise women are:

Selfish

Boring

Rude

Arrogant

Expensive

Disloyal

Mean

Literally just stop being horny for 5 seconds and you’ll end up a misogynist.”

Statements like these are obvious cope, specifically from men who are trying to sell young men a salve. I’d say we could just ignore them entirely if it weren’t for the fact that Tate has millions of followers and reportedly one in six boys ages 6-15 have a positive view of him. His attitudes are not reflective of those of young men as a whole, but his influence is undoubtedly impactful. Case in point, in addition to posts from “masculinity” figures like this, I am also seeing a rise this rhetoric from much smaller, younger characters, too, like this TikTok with over one million likes:

One can argue that there is a sort of law of attraction element to this, that once you let go of your desire for women they will come to you more easily. This is actually somewhat aligned with the pickup artist philosophy. But it seems more likely that this way of thinking is proliferating is due to young men’s dissatisfaction with their sex lives. It’s much easier to convince yourself that sex and women are worthless pursuits than it is to cope with one’s own lack of sexual desirability, or confront the real structural hurdles that men and women alike are navigating in the dating pool. I even sympathize with the fact that young men have likely digested the belief that their desires are creepy and something to be suppressed in a post-Me Too world.

That said, what many of these guys resent is not merely their own empty sex lives but specifically that women are able to capitalize on their sexuality in ways they can’t. They perceive women’s sexuality — the way it is wielded through clothing, through socialization, through various forms of cultural currency — as deception. For them, that women are sexually appealing is some big trick that they’ve convinced themselves they’re too smart to fall for.

Anyone could argue that the only reason this bothers women (or me, in particular) is because that young men giving up on sexuality means that we can no longer benefit from it. Do I really even have much of a newsletter or a writing career at all if I can’t vaguely employ my own desirability upon the page? Where would I be without my parasocially-connected male readers? I’m not shy about the fact that my work hinges upon my own position in our sexual culture, even if only from an observational perspective.

It feels new, however, that any of this requires defending. It highlights how basic lust, once a defining drive of life, is no longer a given. As I’ve always said, the reason I have made any of this my crusade from the start is because desire is a societal good. It is a marker of cultural vitality. Young straight men with any interest in “masculinity” should be horny for women — this seems like something even Andrew Tate would acknowledge. It is, in fact, bad for their sense of sexuality to have dissolved to the point that they have no interest in women at all. It flies in the face of all of the hyper-masculine ideology these figures tout. Men who have killed their desire aren’t master stoics who have managed to overcome lust through pure rational thought. They’re actually just depressed.

Like much of the history Manosphere writ large, we could be looking at a small niche of very online men. With any hope, this is all these posts are indicative of. There will always be men who hate women, and men who hate sex because they hate women. I personally encounter them and their vitriol with routine. Perhaps we are letting the tyranny of the few dictate our perception. A lot of us — again, women especially — wonder why we should care about this. Looking at these niches of men who display themselves as having no interest in sex and dating, we might be inclined to say “good riddance,” that it’s better for these men to opt out than impose themselves upon women. That’s not an untrue or unfair interpretation. My concern, though, is how these attitudes creep into the mainstream. The fact that pickup artistry yielded best-selling books and a VH1 reality show is evidence of how this has happened in the past. Today, we’re seeing how it is infiltrating language, in particular. The term “simping,” for example, which once referred to the acronym “SIMP” or “someone idolizing mediocre pussy,” has become synonymous flirting. To express romantic interest in someone at all now has a negative connotation among young people, even if unconscious. The underlying message is that to want love, sex or a connection is a weakness to be overcome. It is an embarrassment. This disdain for desire is not exclusive to the fringes. It will continue to shape our culture and in turn, our lives.

I am not entirely pessimistic, though. I believe there is some undercurrent of old school pickup artistry on the rise. Anecdotally, I have been approached on the street by men asking for my number more in the last three months than I ever have in my life. Maybe my workout routine is paying off, but in all likelihood, it’s more about shifting cultural attitudes among young men than anything specific to myself. My theory is that whatever algorithm the average young man is tapped into on TikTok, Instagram Reels and YouTube is pushing content on how to approach women in real life. These videos are far less about the specific women in question and their attractiveness than they are about teaching men how to essentially rip the bandaid of social anxiety off. And while they do not all go about it with the best techniques or motivations, I am comforted, at least, to witness anything other than complete apathy toward sex and love.

Multiple things can be true at once: some men will hate women and still want to have sex with them, others will hate them and divest from women entirely, and most men will probably have a relatively normal attitude toward women and be uncertain how to navigate their love lives regardless. The true defining feature of our sexual culture will be this schizophrenic battle between narratives and attitudes. Perhaps it always has been.