Way less exiting though. I like the chaos, the uncertainty, the wracked nerves, the confusion, the mess, the madness, the vulnerability—the intoxication. Anything less is just a single flat note.
i'd say there is absolutely truth in this. a lot of guys just stick with consuming porn because it's easier and fulfills sexual desire (or sexual urges) rather than risk going out and getting rejected/humiliated by women.
yes! and that is a completely different type of desire, if we want to call it that at all — one directed not toward an actual person but more so a desire for temporary relief and fulfillment
Exactly. If I watch a movie (a regular movie), I do it because I want to watch a movie, not have the emotional fulfillment of the life experiences depicted in it.
“But neither men nor women alike are being asked to interrogate their relationship with desiring.”
I can’t speak for women, but this doesn’t fit my experience as a Gen Z man having grown up in the age of social media and ‘social justice’ at all.
My own formative experiences around puberty were that of being bombarded from all directions the notion that interrogating my own desire is mandatory in order to be a morally upstanding human being, and that the act of desiring in any way that is deviant from ultra precise ‘woke’ requirements (or indeed simply desiring women at all) was in fact indicative of one being a misogynist/racist/whatever one’s pet cause was and thus that I needed to “do the work” etc to better myself and overcome it (and was probably irredeemable anyway).
we do spend a lot of time trying to be desirable to others of the opposite sex. some might say an inordinate time. one thing we all must keep in mind though is that it is impossible to be desirable to everyone because everyone has different tastes and (dare i say) preferences. in fact it would be a little strange if you were desirable to literally everyone.
i will also say that this is much more difficult when you don't match up with the beauty standards of whatever culture you live in. in that case, you will always be hard on yourself no matter how much you work on your outward appearance to look more desirable. i'm going to be speaking for myself here; as a guy who is 5'4", neurotic and autistic, and i always feel like no woman, or very few women, will find me desirable.
i remember watching a YouTube video a while back where a conventional attractive white woman said that no matter what you look like, "you are someone's type". that may be true, but keep in mind this was coming from a conventional attractive white woman. this would be like someone who's rich telling you that money doesn't matter.
Fantastic musing. You gotta get into this though: "To not be sexually attracted to people of a marginalized identity, for example, is considered by some to contribute to their marginalization. Meanwhile, to be exclusively attracted to someone of a marginalized identity (when not of a marginalized identity, oneself) makes one a “chaser,” which is also further marginalizing."
My first thought reading this is also that many people, for whatever reason, categorize desire for another person differently than desire for everything else. If you stopped desiring other types of life experiences, people would worry about you, yet they may cheer or support someone saying, "I'm done trying to date," even if that suggests the same amount of internal emotional conflict or struggle. They say we're social animals, that we need skin-on-skin contact! We're not monoliths, but I suspect a vast majority of people who have decided to be alone would not call that ideal in a vacuum so much as based on circumstances.
These things are true of me. I have not necessarily given up, but I do think I am resigned to being alone. It is also frustrating for me in the sense that well-meaning women online often say, "well, if you're nice, and act normally, someone will date you -- the competition is dire." One thing I often struggle with is that I am, as far as I can tell, generally well-liked online and do behave normally, but that is not enough -- but I also know that it is uncouth to complain about this (and frankly, I agree with the sentiment that the moment you become "woe is me" about nobody wanting to date you, you become at least a little unattractive, thanks to the incels and misogynists who do nothing but this all the time). Ultimately, I don't even want to complain about it per se, but I do feel lonely -- and I have no outlet for that energy.
I suppose the solution would be to have better resources on how to increase your desirability to others, to know how to project your good qualities, and that anyone who goes through whatever that kind of work would look like is treated fairly whether they have 5 things to work on or 500. But I don't know what that would be or how it would work.
As a point of further discussion: Doesn't it make sense for someone to neutralize desires that will never be fulfilled? These are just sources of pain; they don't do you any good. They make your life worse because they make you hurt. If someone is undesirable then maybe they should turn off their own desire.
Is this harsh? Yes. Is this also, in its own way, compassionate? Yes. Because this alleviates the pain of wanting something you can't have.
"Love is an irresistible desire to be irresistibly desired," Robert Frost.
I'm not sure that's true for entire cultures any more. And the worst of it is that this has become a politically valened set of facts which means that sensible discussion is almost impossible.
?the destruction of the reproductive systems (of both sexes, but especially women) by the covid vaccines has to have some effect on desire and desirability.
Desire and sex are not always directly and /or solely about reproduction,, but it's not called the reproduction system for nothing.
These are interesting ideas, though I would like to know in practice how it's possible to implement them. I think if most people could take a pill that caused them to perpetually desire the person they want to desire, they would. It would certainly make long term relationships and marriage easier. As it is, Viagra and hormone replacement therapy somewhat act in aid of this purpose. But the reality is that it is very, very difficult to impossible to restart an engine once it's dead, and I'm not sure what the effective technique is to act as jumper cables here? I think you seem to be speaking more to young people who feel a need to feign non-desire as some kind of way to look cool and protect themselves from hurt. But for a long part of their life they're likely to have the total opposite problem and most older people very much wish they could still desire the one they want to as much as they used to without even trying.
So good! Makes me want to go back and re-listen to your Panic World episode with Ryan Broderick from February so I can remember what you said about the prevalence of the situationship in a generation afraid of showing vulnerable desire. Would love to hear you guest star on Power User or A Bit Fruity sometime as well if that's something you're interested in!
Said it before, I’ll say it again: new Magdalene Taylor and I’m smashing that like button.
Desiring someone is dangerous, at least for humans. An AI lover, or just random porn, has fewer complications.
Way less exiting though. I like the chaos, the uncertainty, the wracked nerves, the confusion, the mess, the madness, the vulnerability—the intoxication. Anything less is just a single flat note.
i'd say there is absolutely truth in this. a lot of guys just stick with consuming porn because it's easier and fulfills sexual desire (or sexual urges) rather than risk going out and getting rejected/humiliated by women.
yes! and that is a completely different type of desire, if we want to call it that at all — one directed not toward an actual person but more so a desire for temporary relief and fulfillment
Exactly. If I watch a movie (a regular movie), I do it because I want to watch a movie, not have the emotional fulfillment of the life experiences depicted in it.
i edited my comment to include that consuming porn helps fulfill sexual urges because i think that might be a better descriptor than "desires"
“But neither men nor women alike are being asked to interrogate their relationship with desiring.”
I can’t speak for women, but this doesn’t fit my experience as a Gen Z man having grown up in the age of social media and ‘social justice’ at all.
My own formative experiences around puberty were that of being bombarded from all directions the notion that interrogating my own desire is mandatory in order to be a morally upstanding human being, and that the act of desiring in any way that is deviant from ultra precise ‘woke’ requirements (or indeed simply desiring women at all) was in fact indicative of one being a misogynist/racist/whatever one’s pet cause was and thus that I needed to “do the work” etc to better myself and overcome it (and was probably irredeemable anyway).
we do spend a lot of time trying to be desirable to others of the opposite sex. some might say an inordinate time. one thing we all must keep in mind though is that it is impossible to be desirable to everyone because everyone has different tastes and (dare i say) preferences. in fact it would be a little strange if you were desirable to literally everyone.
i will also say that this is much more difficult when you don't match up with the beauty standards of whatever culture you live in. in that case, you will always be hard on yourself no matter how much you work on your outward appearance to look more desirable. i'm going to be speaking for myself here; as a guy who is 5'4", neurotic and autistic, and i always feel like no woman, or very few women, will find me desirable.
i remember watching a YouTube video a while back where a conventional attractive white woman said that no matter what you look like, "you are someone's type". that may be true, but keep in mind this was coming from a conventional attractive white woman. this would be like someone who's rich telling you that money doesn't matter.
Fantastic musing. You gotta get into this though: "To not be sexually attracted to people of a marginalized identity, for example, is considered by some to contribute to their marginalization. Meanwhile, to be exclusively attracted to someone of a marginalized identity (when not of a marginalized identity, oneself) makes one a “chaser,” which is also further marginalizing."
Its such an interesting phenomenon.
My first thought reading this is also that many people, for whatever reason, categorize desire for another person differently than desire for everything else. If you stopped desiring other types of life experiences, people would worry about you, yet they may cheer or support someone saying, "I'm done trying to date," even if that suggests the same amount of internal emotional conflict or struggle. They say we're social animals, that we need skin-on-skin contact! We're not monoliths, but I suspect a vast majority of people who have decided to be alone would not call that ideal in a vacuum so much as based on circumstances.
These things are true of me. I have not necessarily given up, but I do think I am resigned to being alone. It is also frustrating for me in the sense that well-meaning women online often say, "well, if you're nice, and act normally, someone will date you -- the competition is dire." One thing I often struggle with is that I am, as far as I can tell, generally well-liked online and do behave normally, but that is not enough -- but I also know that it is uncouth to complain about this (and frankly, I agree with the sentiment that the moment you become "woe is me" about nobody wanting to date you, you become at least a little unattractive, thanks to the incels and misogynists who do nothing but this all the time). Ultimately, I don't even want to complain about it per se, but I do feel lonely -- and I have no outlet for that energy.
I suppose the solution would be to have better resources on how to increase your desirability to others, to know how to project your good qualities, and that anyone who goes through whatever that kind of work would look like is treated fairly whether they have 5 things to work on or 500. But I don't know what that would be or how it would work.
This is horrifying
As a point of further discussion: Doesn't it make sense for someone to neutralize desires that will never be fulfilled? These are just sources of pain; they don't do you any good. They make your life worse because they make you hurt. If someone is undesirable then maybe they should turn off their own desire.
Is this harsh? Yes. Is this also, in its own way, compassionate? Yes. Because this alleviates the pain of wanting something you can't have.
"Love is an irresistible desire to be irresistibly desired," Robert Frost.
I'm not sure that's true for entire cultures any more. And the worst of it is that this has become a politically valened set of facts which means that sensible discussion is almost impossible.
I cried reading the last paragraph.
Thank you.
extremely well observed as always, and a quote from Houellebecq! bravo and thank you 🙏🏼
? pheremones, or the absence of them.
?the destruction of the reproductive systems (of both sexes, but especially women) by the covid vaccines has to have some effect on desire and desirability.
Desire and sex are not always directly and /or solely about reproduction,, but it's not called the reproduction system for nothing.
These are interesting ideas, though I would like to know in practice how it's possible to implement them. I think if most people could take a pill that caused them to perpetually desire the person they want to desire, they would. It would certainly make long term relationships and marriage easier. As it is, Viagra and hormone replacement therapy somewhat act in aid of this purpose. But the reality is that it is very, very difficult to impossible to restart an engine once it's dead, and I'm not sure what the effective technique is to act as jumper cables here? I think you seem to be speaking more to young people who feel a need to feign non-desire as some kind of way to look cool and protect themselves from hurt. But for a long part of their life they're likely to have the total opposite problem and most older people very much wish they could still desire the one they want to as much as they used to without even trying.
So good! Makes me want to go back and re-listen to your Panic World episode with Ryan Broderick from February so I can remember what you said about the prevalence of the situationship in a generation afraid of showing vulnerable desire. Would love to hear you guest star on Power User or A Bit Fruity sometime as well if that's something you're interested in!
So good.